ROGER WATERS « Roger Waters interviewed by Jean-François Hebey for RTL radio », 22 February 1977.
Jean-François Hebey: « Doesn't it seem a bit strange, maybe even shocking, the fact that at the time of the UFO (UK club) you were the most underground of the underground bands, and now Pink Floyd are one of the best-known bands, the most successful, the most commercially successful? Aren't you uncomfortable with this attitude of having gone from one extreme to the other, the least known, the most known, the least rich, the richest, the least famous, the most famous? »
Roger Waters: « It was never our intention to be an underground band. We were forced into it, we were labelled as such. Certain groups are adopted by certain audiences, so you can stick any label you want on them. We were underground. But when the word underground was fashionable, we were like any other band, we worked and tried to do our best »
Jean-François Hebey: « Funny thing is, around the same time, there were a lot of bands in England, and one of them you often shared the bill with was Soft Machine, with Robert Wyatt and Mike Ratledge in particular. And they made some absolutely fantastic records, they had a lot of success too, but they did exactly the opposite of you. You're still together, you're still making records, and it's going great. They're not together any more, they don't make records together any more, the band doesn't exist any more, so to speak. Even if the name Soft Machine still exists, there are no original members in the band any more. It's a strange kind of differentiation. How do you explain that? Is it because you had a better manager? »
Roger Waters: « No, it's certainly not that. It's because the public appreciate us more, I think it's as simple as that. You've used the word success several times. I think that success ultimately means who likes you, and how much they're prepared to pay to see you. It's possible that in another field Soft Machine is our equal and much more successful than we are. They do research that we can't do. ? and Mike Ratledge have gone very far in their research. From a technical point of view, for example, we do a song in 4/4 very well, but they do it in 13/8. I don't do 13/8 because I don't even know what that means! So the success that interests you who work in radio is the success that says "we sell records, and we sell concert tickets", because that produces money and applause. Money is the symbol of love in this society, and that's important »
Jean-François Hebey: « There are some words that have come up a lot, quite surprisingly, quite humorously in the conversation since the beginning, and they are the words success and money. And these two words are undeniably linked to Pink Floyd's career, in France at least. Do you have any idea how many records you sell in France? »
Roger Waters: « Not really, but I know it's not bad ».
Jean-François Hebey: « Is money important to you, or to the band in general? Have you ever picked up the phone, called the Pink Floyd office and said, "Well, how much did we make today at such and such a place? What kind of relationship do you have with money in general? »
Roger Waters: « My attitude is schizophrenic. I'm not indifferent to money, but it's important to me to know its value »
Jean-François Hebey: « What does it mean to you? »
Roger Waters: « It means …»
Jean-François Hebey: « OK, we're going to do a little experiment that I often do in interviews like this. You're going to leave in a few moments to play, to go to the concert. I suppose you're dressed in your stage clothes. How much money do you have on you? How much money do you have in your pocket? »
Roger Waters: « More or less £20 »
Jean-François Hebey: « Do you think £20 is a lot of money or a little? »
Roger Waters: « (Laughs) It's all relative, isn't it? Yes, it's a lot of money, and no, it's not a lot of money. It's relative, as you know »
Jean-François Hebey: « For you, Roger Waters, when you look in the mirror, do you say to yourself « I’m a superstar » ? »
Roger Waters: « No, we're not. I think if a label like superstar means anything, we're more of a supergroup. Supergroup means the bands that make the most money. If we make a list of the 25 biggest bands, for example, they're the bands who make the most money, so they're supergroups! They earn a lot of money for themselves and for their entourage. But a superstar is someone who likes to perform in front of everyone all the time. For themselves, not for anyone else. And that's not me »
Jean-François Hebey: « One thing that's interesting is that Pink Floyd arrived at a time when things were moving, to say the least, in '66, '67, '68 ... »
Roger Waters: « No, I think we were lucky enough to arrive at a time when the world, the country, was in full economic expansion. No, in fact, in '68 when the group started to be known, there was a completely new notion, and that was the notion of a group, not a singer accompanied by an orchestra. It was a group of people who lived together, who worked together, who were together all day. There was the notion of a band, a gang, a group, because that's what it was called, and you've carried on the tradition perfectly. In other words, today we still say Pink Floyd, but I think that if you asked people who rushed out to buy Pink Floyd tickets "what are the names of the 4 members of Pink Floyd?" very few would be able to give more than 2 or 3, for example. Keith Richard or Mick Jagger can't go out in the street and buy themselves a pair of trousers, whereas Roger Waters, Nick Mason and David Gilmour can go to London and do their shopping, and nobody will be worried, except 2 or 3 who will stop them to ask for an autograph. But there won't be any riots, whereas Mick Jagger never will. It's quite strange, this notion of a group that you've managed to keep together »
Jean-François Hebey: « In the beginning, your first fans were intellectuals and students. There's always an ambiguity between the fact that you're very popular but that there's perhaps a swindle going on. In other words, you make people think they're very intelligent by listening to your music, which they're not necessarily. Isn't it uncomfortable to be in the position of being an intellectual band recognised the world over, stamped with the stamp of intellectual rock 'n' roll quality? »
Roger Waters: « What I'm trying to do with my life is to satisfy my personal and psychological needs. They're important to me. And I satisfy them in several ways, for example with my family or my work. My work is important, but it's only a small part. And what I do in my work, what I try to do, is to express what I see or what I feel around me, like all artists I think »
Jean-François Hebey: « Do you consider yourself an artist? »
Roger Waters: « Yes, I consider myself an artist. That's how I differ from other people who do rock'n'roll. They're not interested in expressing their feelings about this or that »
Jean-François Hebey: « Do you have any other artistic activities? Do you paint or draw?»
Roger Waters: « Yes I draw, I draw my child and my wife »
Jean-François Hebey: « Do you feel like a good father, a sugar daddy ?»
Roger Waters: « Well, my family is very young. I have one child and he's 3 months old.»
Jean-François Hebey: « Are you taking him on tour with you? Is he around? »
Roger Waters: « No, no, I don't take her to shows. For someone his age, all the noise won't do him any good.He's got other things to do, like « when are they going to feed me? I'm hungry » (Laughs) »
Jean-François Hebey: « Who came up with the title and cover for your latest album, « Animals »? »
Roger Waters: « The idea comes from me »
Jean-François Hebey: « First of all, I'd like to remind you that some people still don't know what the cover of the latest Pink Floyd album is. Can you remind us what the cover represents? »
Roger Waters: « The outside cover is a photo of the Battersea power station, with a large helium-filled pig floating on it. At first I wanted 4 or 5 or 6 pigs flying, but in the end it was too hard, we didn't have the time and we had technical problems. And then it wasn't very easy to make a balloon like that, so we only made one »
Jean-François Hebey: « Why « Animals » ? »
Roger Waters: « Because it's an album about the bestial instincts of man, quite simply. I think that's what it's all about in the end. In other words, affinities with certain animals. The pigs, dogs and sheep on the album are symbols of human characteristics »
Jean-François Hebey: « Are you interested in drugs, alcohol, groupies? All the usual fun stuff of rock n roll and touring. »
Roger Waters: « Oh, I can't speak for others, but I, for example, I … (unintelligible) »
Jean-François Hebey: « Do you pay tax in the UK, like ¾ of bands? Do you intend to stay in England? »
Roger Waters: « Honestly, we'd talked about it at one point. So I talked about it with my wife. She wanted to go back to the US, she's English but she has lots of friends in the US. But once the child arrived we thought, « oh shit, we're going to stay here ». I'm much happier now that I know I'm going to stay here. »
Jean-François Hebey: « Do you read the newspapers every day? »
Roger Waters: « No. Every week I read this or that article, because I like the author, but I don't read regularly. I buy the newspaper every day, and if something interests me I read it. »
Jean-François Hebey: « Are you interested by politics? »
Roger Waters: « No. Not really »
Jean-François Hebey: « I don't know if you know, but in California ¾ of the bands played for Jerry Brown when he was running for President of the United States. Do you think you should have done that? »
Roger Waters: « No, I don't think so. No American policy. Let's leave that to the Americans »
Jean-François Hebey: « And in England, how would you like to do a big concert for Harold Wilson's comeback? »
Roger Waters: « I don't think so. But I wouldn't say no if one day in England there was a political movement that interested me. If I had an affinity for a movement I'd help them. But I have the impression that, in politics as in rock'n'roll, most of the people who do this job have their heads screwed up. And the ones who are the craziest are the ones at the head of these movements. »
Jean-François Hebey: « How old are you ? »
Roger Waters: « 33 »
Jean-François Hebey: « Do you think it's old? »
Roger Waters: « No. And you ? »
Jean-François Hebey: « No, I'm 32, but from time to time I ask myself questions. »
Jean-François Hebey: « How do you see yourself in 10 years, when you're 43? Do you still see yourself playing bass and guitar and singing in Pink Floyd? »
Roger Waters: « Maybe when I'm a bit older I'll still be writing songs and playing bass in a band. I don't think age has anything to do with it. You shouldn't say to yourself « you have to be under 30, 45, 60 », that doesn't mean anything. People have a tendency to say « 33, he's old », but I think that in their heads people think that rock is something childish, that it's music for young people. But that's not true, there's a lot of work behind this music. Take Bob Dylan, for example. Do you realise what this guy has done for rock over the years? There are people who are 42, 43 years old, who produce records, who do very solid work. So I hope to do the same in a few years' time »
Jean-François Hebey: « Do you feel you've given rock & roll the best years of your life? »
Roger Waters: « No, I don't think so. I'm happy with my life »
Jean-François Hebey: « Plus, if I'm not mistaken, rock & roll isn't your whole life, it's only part of it »
Roger Waters: « Not at all. Let's just say that writing songs, being in a band, playing music, it's all part of my life, it's my way of life. And I've always had a huge need to be applauded by as many people as possible. The point of doing a concert is to be applauded by lots of people. I think that's why people play in bands, to be applauded and congratulated. »
Jean-François Hebey: « What you really want is to be fed and filled with love and respect? »
Roger Waters: « Yes. Maybe I'm talking nonsense, but I personally believe that people like me need all this public, and that's why they do this difficult and dangerous work. »
Jean-François Hebey: « Worst of all, rock 'n' roll needs success. Without success, there's no rock’ n roll »
Roger Waters: « I've written on that theme sometimes. Not on « Animals », but on « Wish You Were Here » I've written songs about it. ».
Jean-François Hebey: « Before we say goodbye, why don't you try saying something in French? »
Roger Waters: « No, I can’t. Je ne peux pas (in French) »
Jean-François Hebey: « Thanks again, and see you soon »
